Knowledge is Power

Have you heard of Moo Doe?

The so-called "traditional" martial art taught by Oom Yung Doe to raise money and recruit for their cult.

Some things seem natural, like a glass of grapefruit juice would be a healthy choice for breakfast. But its important to check out the facts before you pick up a glass of pink yummy goodness. You could end up like this guy.

Information is a good thing.
Especially if you're interested in Oom Yung Doe.

Money. Lots of it.

This entry was posted on 1/6/2006 8:07 PM and is filed under Student.

Two-thirds into my beginner program, I signed up for a multi-year black belt program. Large downpayment, smaller monthly payments to make up the balance.

A few months later, Instructor X called and left a message for me. There's a special opportunity right now, he said, for current students. The price of the black belt program is going up in September, but if you want to lock in your lower price, you can. Next time I was in for class, I asked him about it. He said if I decided that I was committed to my training, I would be locked in for the lower price. I just had to make a downpayment of $X,XXX.XX to make sure. Also, by doing that, I would have less monthly payments to make, so in the long run it all works out. I didn't have the money right away, but I was expecting a raise in August. No problem, he said, I just need your word. If you are committed, I will let you make the payment in August.

In August, a special seminar was announced. It would be taking place over a full weekend, and higher belts who learn directly from Grandmaster were flying in from San Diego to teach! The whole weekend! Eat, drink, sleep, train. All for the price of $XXX.XX, but those who have their courses paid off get a discount. Well, I'd like to go Instructor X, but I was saving up for that downpayment that I promised to pay in August. Oh well, its your choice, if you don't want to go, thats fine. But I'm telling you, after you hear about others' experiences, I guarantee, you'll wish you had gone. Its not everyday that you get to spend all day with 7th degree black belts. Yeah, its a shame, I wish I could go, but ...

Okay, so if you really, really want to go, I'll waive you the downpayment until September. So, pay in full for the weekend seminar, then you can worry about the downpayment later.

Do I still get the lower price for my black belt program?

Listen, what really matters is that you are committed to your training. I'm not here to be a businessman with you. Yes, school needs money to run, but thats not what moo doe is about. If you want to learn, you have to be dedicated to your training. Thats all that matters. Thats why we offer the college discount, thats why I let you pay over months. Are you allowed to pay your college tuition in monthly payments? No, but we do. Don't worry about the money. Its not important.

The weekend seminar was exhilarating. I was in pain for a week. Man, that was tough. The higher belts were pretty cool. One of them was a little weird, but, some people have their beliefs, and they believe in it strongly, they have conviction, I respect that. I'm free to have my own beliefs, and I can still respect theirs. Right?

But I couldn't scrounge together enough for the downpayment in September. This is not good. Instructor X trusted me. I don't want to let him down. I don't want to make excuses. I gave him my word, I should keep it. That's what honor is all about, right?

There's always enough credit card offers in the mail.

Great, got over that hump. I continue to enjoy my training, I can see some muscle definition beginning to show. I sleep better, my legs are stronger and I love hanging out with the new people I'm meeting. But lately, its like we just do the same things over and over again. So I tell Instructor X one day, I feel like I want more. He tells me that there's this special weekly lesson for people who want to train at an accelerated pace. I find out that all those 5th and 6th sections who I really look up to are on that program. How can I get onto that program? Well, you have to be approved by the Assistant National Instructor.

I hang around after hours hoping to get a moment with Assistant National Instructor M. He asks me some tough questions. Tells me its serious, they're not just going waste their time on anybody who just thinks this is a hobby, a way to pass time. He used to allow students to put down a postdated check, but there was this one student who shut down his bank account and skipped town. So he's not falling for that again. You pay $1,450 upfront, and pay off your black belt course. Then I'll see where you stand.

That's impossible. Well, ANI M said, if thats how easily you admit defeat, I don't want you in my class. This is a school of traditional moo doe. This is a diamond, not to be passed around for nothing. If you truly value it, you'll figure out a way to earn it. Only then are you ready for advanced training.

I came back a few months later with $700. Okay, he said, it looks like you really want to learn. I got started in the advanced group.

Three months later, winds of change rocked the boat. The weird guy from the weekend seminar was back in town, and everybody had appointments to come in and talk to instructors about their training goals. I go into the office when its my turn; ANI M is sitting there with a pile of papers on either side. Grandmaster is opening up the door, he says, he is spreading seeds for whoever wants to make use of them. Receive or not receive, your choice. Life is once, how you live it is your choice. You only have one mind and body. What can be more precious than developing your mind and body? Yaddayaddayadda. Pulls out a chart, starts writing numbers. Shoves it in front of me - look, based on where you are in your current program, getting on the International program actually means you pay less monthly. Okay, you've got my attention. Just make a $X,XXX.XX downpayment to enroll. Since this goes directly to Oom Yung Doe, not to our school, I can't compromise on that.

Well, ANI M, I just can't keep pulling out money from nowhere, I think. It would be disrespectful to say that out loud, so use your brain, how should I put this? "I still have the balance of the $1,450 that I only paid $700 for ... I don't think I can afford both right now."

ANI M looks me in the eye and says: "Forget the rest of that money. I know you're dedicated, I will teach you on that course for free. You don't have to pay any more towards that."

Wasn't that touching? I thought so.

I signed up that day for the International Level Degree Program (ILDP) - the grand macdaddy of moo doe, taught by four levels of instruction, with personalized movements to improve select body types and conditions. A gift of life for life.

After a few weeks, my advanced class started getting more and more crowded. I asked an elderly lady who I knew wasn't one of the advanced students (I mean, she could barely move like Kevin or Tim over here, so surely she wasn't in our class) ... uh, so what brings you here tonight?

"I am an ILDP student", she says,"So that supercedes the accelerated class".

Hmm.
I thought about asking my instructors what exactly I paid $700 for 3 months ago, if that program was simply engulfed by ILDT, but it was just too complicated. Too many changes going on, they were running around all the time, and they looked so stressed out. It's just money.

Wanna hear someone else's story? How about some news from Seattle.

http://www.king5.com/localnews/investigators/stories/NW_021605INKoomyungdoeJK.b55fbaa5.html

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1/31/2006 12:02 AM YinYang wrote:
I'm trying to learn more about OYD & I've read every entry in your blog & quite a few more on the Yahoo! discussion. But I don't want to weed through the hyperbole or flame wars to find information. Are you still training & in what? Why did you ultimately leave OYD? What advice do you give to someone who dates an OYD 1st degree black belt who swears by the training & can't see how they're hurting?
Reply to this
1. 2/2/2006 5:50 PM Fred Burkle wrote:
  I stopped training in OYD a few years ago. Since then, I've hooked up with other martial artists in Japanese and Chinese styles and read a lot of books. It wasn't until several months of training in a consistent style that the magnitude of my ignorance as an OYD black belt really sunk in. Every style is different, so in a sense you are a beginner when you begin training somewhere else, but OYD training teaches you to pay attention to all the wrong things, engrain bad habits, makes you close-minded and insecure ... even if you don't realize these things about yourself until after you leave the confortable environment within the OYD cult. The more I learn about the real world of martial arts, the more I realize what a fraud OYD was. Why I ultimately left OYD - I think I'll make that the topic of my next blog entry, since it would be rather wordy.
  
  As for your last question ... that's a tough one. Speaking for myself, when I believed in OYD, I wouldn't listen to anyone who told me otherwise. There are too many ways to rationalize everything. People have to choose it for themselves. If you have a friend who you think is being harmed by being in OYD, be accepting while also encouraging them to educate themselves and not take anything at face value. In the end, an informed citizen is a happy citizen. Good luck.
  Reply to this
2. 2/6/2006 10:17 PM Monika wrote:
  Hi YinYang (Hi Fred),
  
  I'm an Ex OYD student. I went into OYD more open-eyed than most and *still* got suckered in. After all, who can afford wasting *thousands* of dollars?.
  
  I was new in town when I started, and I did make a few lasting friends at OYD. Fortunately, none these friends still train. Some suffered considerably more than me.
  
  I've always been outspoken in the school, and mostly encountered 'cautious tolerance' from the higher belt instructors. As a result, I never got involved to the point that I feel the need to cover my identity. No idea about Fred -- I guess every area is a little different.
  
  I made it through the black belt test, decided that I no longer enjoyed going to the school at all, and that I've probably been *beep*ed. It's in my nature to laugh at myself if that happens and move on. My dad would say: "stop pumping adrenaline, it's *over*".
  
  But my friends are still suffering in one way or another, and that's why I occasionally seek out blogs like this to put in my 5c. Hopefully freedom of information and justice are somehow related...
  
  I agree with Fred that your last question is key, but a tough one.
  
  If you happen to know non-OYD martial artists that *really* know their stuff (non Mc-Dojo!), getting people to work out together in the park is a great way to go -- but your OYD person needs an open mind to even go and try it. I accepted such an invitation from a friend of a friend right after I was out of OYD and ended up with a jaw-dropping experience. Upgraded my OYD training assessment to "hey, I know sh*t -- and I really DID get *beep*ed".
  
  You may also try to look for seminars by schools that host instructors from *other* schools (e.g. a Karate school that hosts Aikido seminars...) -- an unfailing sign of an open mind on both sides.
  
  Or find a good Yoga school, enroll in a few lessons to make sure they are ok, then invite your friend to join you once. This should be about $12 per session, maybe a little more depending on where you are. It might show them how well-known some concepts are that OYD claims are theirs. Some people do not associate Yoga with martial arts (hah!) and don't feel threatened by such a suggestion
  
  There are also a few good books on Martial Arts (especially internal Martial Arts) available in English -- maybe a good innocent looking gift (for Valentines day?). Fred, care to provide some links to Amazon?
  
  Most importantly, try to get them involved in other rewarding activities as much as possible. Try to make sure they have a real day-time job (burger flipping does not count). People who get a sense of accomplishment and value outside of OYD have a much easier time leaving.
  
  Oh yeah: under no circumstance let them spend *your* money to fund the system. No seminar as birthday present (urgh, some of those seminars cost more than I pay my current instructor in a year). No trip to San Diego. NADA.
  
  best of luck,
  
  Monika.
  Reply to this
4/4/2006 9:36 PM Syberpanther wrote:
This is all very enlightening. OYD is opening a school that is across the street from my school. I've been training for 4+ years. We just leared of this style and some of the head instructors are concerned. Of course because of the immediate competition. From what I've read from this blog and other links I've found, the style is laughable. I can't imagine how much money could be lost in all of this. in my style, our seminars are very reasonably priced. the tournaments are also somewhere around $35 for entry and maybe $10 per event. something like that. I haven't checked exactly. Anyway, that already is slightly costly for the average joe with a house and family. Thank you for this information Fred and Monika. I will definately pass this information on to whoever i can. It's important for people to spot and educate others on founded scams. Thanks again.
Reply to this
1. 4/5/2006 6:53 PM Fred Burkle wrote:
  You're quite welcome.
  
  The greatest enemy of the OYD scam is Information. If you have a legitimate school across the street from them, and you are honest in your art, you have nothing to fear. OYD preys on people's ignorance. As you can see, all you need to do to sway a comparison shopper is to steer them to do some research on the internet.
  
  Would you mind sharing where this new OYD school is opening? You can email me in private (fredburkle at thinkbeforeyoudrinksomethingpink.com) if you do not wish to publicly state your location. The reason I ask, is that I still know many people who were my peers and continue to think they can make back some of their loss by playing along with the con. It sounds twisted, but ... that's not the way they think of it. So many new schools crop up; the frontman is usually a young instructor who is grossly unqualified, but is promised the backing of more experienced instructors (and better training) in return for cash investment. In a few years, these schools wrap up, the young instructor disappears, OYD moves on with the cash to rinse and repeat.
  Reply to this